Whilst on the Blogging Theology site, I chanced to see a comment:
…i invite you to find a single evidence for the validity of the belief in hadith from the Quran.
So MWM (That’ me) replied:
“O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not invalidate your deeds.” (Qur’an, Muhammad 47:33)
We know how to obey Allah, Most Exalted: we heed the Qur’an (Allah’s words).
How do we obey the Messenger (peace be upon him)? By heeding his words.
Where are his words recorded? In the recorded reports attributed to him.
What are ‘reports’ called in Arabic? Hadiths.
(But Muslims have carefully sifted through these reports, grading them to different levels of authenticity)
(CLICK THIS FOOTNOTE1 to see Pristine8’s reply)
So Pristine8 replied in two places: 1) on a post of mine called ‘The Hadith Critical Method and its Criticisms‘ and 2) to my answer on the Blogging Theology site.
So, at the comments section of ‘The Hadith Critical Method and its Criticisms’ post,
Wa alaikum as salaam,
1) ‘There are some few hadiths from early islam(not the time of the prophet) but still bukhari and abu dawod tirmdhi etc are the books that sunnis follow.’
There is value in the early community of believers. See https://almuwahideenalislam.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/the-golden-generation/
2) ‘The sahabas are just normal people they were not prophets and they have no revelations sent to them.’
They had the Qur’an sent to them via the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the Prophet, himself, was described by ‘Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) as the ‘Walking Qur’an’ – so he too (that is to say, his words and example) was another ‘revelation’.
Supporting Evidence: “And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path.” (Ash-Shuraa 42:52) and “And remember what is recited in your houses of the verses ofAllah and Wisdom. Indeed, Allah is ever subtle and acquainted [with all things].” (Qur’an, Al-Ahzab 33:34)
3) ‘There is no proof for the validity of the hadith except that “someone said that a companion said it”’
A) hadiths are valid based on what has been said above and in a previous message to you (https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/11/28/god-has-made-his-light-shine-for-those-who-seek-for-him/#comment-64493).
B) Moreover, it was not a ‘someone’- these are known people. This means we know their character. Most of these companions had impeccable character, which is why we respect them. It was not a random stranger quoting something the prophet (peace be upon him) said. If it was, it would be discounted entirely, most probably.
4. ‘or because the fabricated hadith is widespread or many people said it.’
We know about all the fabricated hadiths because of the early Muslims scholars that analysed them all and scrutinised their content, (matn) and their chain of narrations (isnad). The ones we rely on the most are in the authentic collection (sahih). The fabricated ones are not used at all by genuine Muslims.
5. ‘So truth here is determined by the number of people which is logically wrong.’
Your statement is unclear. But, no, there was not just one category considered to decide the authenticity of a hadith. There are many factors. You are simplifying the hadith-criticism tradition and then saying its too simple and must be rejected.
6. ‘The majority tend to be wrong according to the Quran.’
The majority tend to be wrong because they do not follow Qur’an and Sunnah. They become more impressed by their own hawa (desire and opinion).
“Have you seen he who has taken as his ilah (god) his [own] hawa (desire and opinion), and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah? Then will you not be reminded?” (Qur’an, Al-Jathiya 45:23)
7. ‘The Quran also doesn’t allow any hadith to be followed with it. Imagine the scenario God sent a complete clear preserved book and said that if the seas were ink my words will not end, humans started to write endless other books.’
Yes, the Qu’ran is clear (mubeen) and preserved
The hadiths are not books written to solely explain the Qur’an. They are historical testimony to the Prophet’s words (peace be upon him). And the Qur’an tells us – orders us – to follow both the Qur’an and the Prophet (peace be upon him). The Qur’an tells us what to do (i.e. establish salah – see 6:72), whilst the example of the prophet, peace be upon him (via hadiths) shows us how.
Lets start asking some real questions.
How do we know the real campanions from the fake comapanions ?
Who has the authority to claim that these are true campanions and these are false ones ?
How do we know that the campanions of the prophet are trustworthy? according to the Quran many hypocrites were around him.
How do we know that the people who relate from the campanions are trustworthy?
Who has the authority to claim that these are trustworthy and these are not and based on what ?
How do we know that the people who relate form the people who relate from the campanions are trustworthy….
The questions are endless.
But i guess all these people have amazing characters and there are no liars, how did we know it ?
Because someone said that that person is trustworthy, based on what ? Based on someone else’s sayings about his life.
You see the whole argument for belief in the hadith is that:
-1 Someone said that that person is trustworthy based on unproven tales or sayings from other people on his life by people considered trustworthy based on unproven tales …
-2 Many people have said the same thing therefore that thing is true.
If the sayings of the prophet are so important for the later generations, why didn’t the prophet write a preserved book called “The hadith of the prophet”?
According to the Quran he can write.
He would be avoiding endless fabrications and only his word will be transmited.
You see there wouldnt be all this mess people saying form here that one from there…
This is just my critic for the hadith science.
My real argument is that according to the Quran:
-The prophet was never autorised to utter sayings other than the Quran.[Al Haqqah 40-46].
-The prophet had only the Quran as revelation. [Al Anam 19].
-The Quran is complete, preserved and clear and doesn’t need any book to make it clear.
1 And to Pristine8’s response on the Blogging Theology site,
God and the Messanger are one in purpose so obeying God is obeying the prophet and the inverse is true. God and the Messenger are both inviting people to the truth. So people need to obey the Messenger when he invites them to the Quran.
This is how he invites them:
And when it is said to them, “Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger,” you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.[4:61].
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah.[4:62]
O you who have believed, respond to Allah and to the Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life.[8:24].
God and the Messenger are both bringing people out of darkness with the Quran which is sent by God. Therefore following the Messenger is by following the message that he follows and obeying him is by obeying the message that he obeys.
Because there was now much to respond to because I could see ambiguities, confusions, conflations and personal interpretations, I decided to dedicate a post to this. Please click HERE.